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1. Speer Reloading Manual 14 Cheap
2. Speer Reloading Manual #13

Sorry to offend. I do have a couple manuals I have read cover to cover. Neither have nambu info.Oddball and unusual cartridges, like Nambu, are danged hard to find data for.

On the other hand, people want info on loading 9mmPara,.40 S&W,.223Rem/5.56, both 7.62's (Soviet and Russian Rimmed), but can't be bothered to put forth effort to learn what they are doing, with data found literally EVERYWHERE. When I started, pre-internet, I had to read books and think to figure out what I was doing, or wanting to do. While I agree with the point, it isn't a black and white area. If someone was asking what a starting load for a 168 gr bullet in the 30-06 is, then I agree they need to get there own library. However, like hudson has been doing, looking for starting points for the 8mm nambu isn't as easy as opening a book. I have a few reference points from magazine articles and things I've collected through the years on this, and I probably own more reloading manuals than most (I have all the lyman/ideal manuals back to WWII and there is no mention that I have found of either of the 3 nambu rounds).

Plus, just because a reloading manual lists XYZ bullet with XYZ powder, doesn't mean that I can't ask if anyone has found a sweet spot. Just my 2 cents. Hudson: This has zero to do with Nambu reloading. If it were, I'd say so in your thread.

Discovery Learning is not safe and certainly not safe for reloading. This has everything to do with those who are novices in reloading and looking for short cuts. Why is opening a reloading book and reading a problem? Are you illiterate or what? Is education not the key to knowledge? Finding a load on internet and not knowing fundamentals of reloading is a recipe for safety concerns.

There are things like case lenght not on those factory sites Once again: If you are too cheap or shoddy not to buy a reloading manual, don't ask for help on load data. Do the basics, get a book, read it and then ask questions. Last edited by milprileb; at 07:33 AM. Plus, just because a reloading manual lists XYZ bullet with XYZ powder, doesn't mean that I can't ask if anyone has found a sweet spot.While that is true, it may save you a lot of development work.

It also may not save you as bit of work, since what worked impressively in Tom's gun may not work worth a darn in yours. Folks, if you think YOU have 'a problem' with it happening here, just to let you know, you don't. I belong to a couple other reloading message boards, not shooting boards with a reloading section, but solely reloading message boards, and just about everyone who buys some new rifle asks exactly that, 'what is your favorite load?' , and seriously, THESE are folks like myself with decades of handloading sometimes.

Heck, Shotgunworld. 'What should I load for trap / what should I load for skeet / what does everyone use for sporting clays/5-stand/'etc,etc,etc. No-one but NO-ONE can make their own decisions anymore on what THEY want to do without seeking approval from the WWW at large. While I agree with the point, it isn't a black and white area. If someone was asking what a starting load for a 168 gr bullet in the 30-06 is, then I agree they need to get there own library.

However, like hudson has been doing, looking for starting points for the 8mm nambu isn't as easy as opening a book. I have a few reference points from magazine articles and things I've collected through the years on this, and I probably own more reloading manuals than most (I have all the lyman/ideal manuals back to WWII and there is no mention that I have found of either of the 3 nambu rounds).

Plus, just because a reloading manual lists XYZ bullet with XYZ powder, doesn't mean that I can't ask if anyone has found a sweet spot. Just my 2 cents.This is probably the reason these forums are here. If everyone knew, or had at hand references for what they reload, then we would not have these forums. If some one asks a question I think has been covered elsewhere, I-Net, books etc, then I just don't respond. My blood pressure is now almost below average because I don't take personal ownership of others questions. Also books are outdated.

I have two Speer books many years apart. Additionally, I used to be able to use the American Rifleman as a resource. Now those days are gone as well. The latest and greatest manual pretty much parrots the first, which was produced 15+ years earlier. Now you cant' convince me, some one hasn't worked out a 'better' load and would like to share.

As for the powder companies. They only work with about 15% of the loads I look for in a given year. Often they are specialized using only one brand of projectile. And lastly, if I don't want to answer a question, I am still not required by anyone to respond. Keeps my blood pressure way down. I just don't understand why so many rely on the internet for facts when a good 70% of it is wrong, misunderstood, or invented.

Speer Reloading Manual 14 Cheap

Then they gripe about a lack of accuracy! I've updated several on my manuals on-line for free. You can down load manuals for Accurate arms. Hodgdon (which includes Hodgdon's own plus IMR & Winchesters data.) So the problem isn't frugality, but laziness. Bullet types? Get the load all mini manuals with data from multiple manufacturers for $10.00 a pop & have reliable tested data, not 'Billy-Bob Bubbabob's' own load favorites developed by his third cousin twice removed who was 'tolt of it by a guy at the range', called 'Lefty one eye'.

All, of course without the advantages of pressure measurements or procedural safety measures. After all you'll do is have a KABOOM so you can post more rubbish about how you invented a 'secret' load no ballistics engineer thought of. No-one but NO-ONE can make their own decisions anymore on what THEY want to do without seeking approval from the WWW at large. That is the problem today, but it is even worse. Case study: recently while waiting to have my car serviced I chatted with a salesman at the dealership.

He told how a recent customer of his came in and wanted to know what to do about the low tire-pressure warning light. The salesman patiently explained the exotic procedure of using a tire pressure gauge. The customer then asked: ' is there a smartphone app for that?' I recently just downloaded the Lyman 48th Edition reloading manual, free.

What is really cool about.pdf documents is you can simply search for your term/cartridge and find it within the pages instantly, plus the 48th edition has lots of info for anyone interested in cast lead shooting, which I do a lot as it saves boatloads of cash, A beginner reloader should have hours and hours of reading under his belt before ever even trying to press out his first bullet, or even buy his first press! Read, there's tons of info that will save you time, energy, fingers and eyes, I am a novice reloader to say the least and only load for about 6 cartridges, when I need a question answered that is more dynamic than a reloading manual can offer, I come to the forums and ask for personal experience from people who I trust. I sure agree, viking. How about the 'grumpy complainers' identifying exactly what they consider this forum is for?I think this comes down to safety.

People don't want to be responsible or assist in someone blowing themselves up because they jumped from step 1 to step 5 without considering 2,3 and 4. People ask tons of reloading questions here that manuals might not cover completely, or perhaps they just want to check a load with everyone before firing as a final confirmation, but one should not LEARN to reload simply from asking questions, there are too many variables and a newbie is bound to miss them and go into a dangerous project with only enough information to get himself in serious trouble.

If I tell you that I use XYZ powder with XYZ cartridge, and you don't check to see if my data falls within safe parameters then you are a fool. But that shouldn't inhibit me from sharing my thoughts on a particular reloading topic. That strikes me as exactly the OP's point. Load data obtained from other than a reputable manual or manufactuer's published tables is subject to 'trust but verify.' Example: there is no published reloading data for Rel 17 with Swiss 7.5X55.

However, Pierre St. Marie provided his load recommendations a few years ago. I used a lanyard to test fire it.

I sure agree, viking. How about the 'grumpy complainers' identifying exactly what they consider this forum is for?What this site is exactly for is whatever each participant wants to put into it. I choose not to give load data, I choose to remind folks online data comes from sources of variable quality, and that they need to start 10% down and work up looking for signs of trouble. I have pretty much dropped out of posting on any reloading forum because the right reloading components are hard to find and folks, IMHO, are not only not doing their own homework, but far to many who should know better are taking to many shortcuts and 'work arounds' trying to make whatever they can get work. Newbies are buying what they can get, regardless of it being appropriate for their intended purpose because they didn't do their homework to start with and trying to make it work anyway. I've posted this thought before. Reloading isn't for everybody, it isn't just about saving money, it is about making a superior ammunition in accuracy and quality and tuned to a specific weapon.

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In any given caliber you have numerous variables in the weapons themselves, barrel length and twist rates to name just two. Not every weight bullet and powder listed for a caliber is really appropriate for every weapon in that caliber.

You can tell a lot about where somebody is at on the learning curve by what they ask and how they ask it. Most newbies don't even realize that, much less plan around that for the weapon they are loading for.

Most folks are still asking about why you got to FL resize for semi autos or think The Garand or the PSL are the only semi's that have powder type and bullet weight limits. And fights start over trying to tell folks different. Because they bought powder and bullets and therefore it has to work and it is listed in their manual or they saw it online or so and so is shooting it.

They don't understand the firearm much less the ammo and they want to reload. They want max loads that beat the crap out of a weapon and think an old milslurp can take modern max loads with out a knowledgeable gunsmith checking it out, and resent having to sort thru surplus ammo and cull out ammo that is substandard or won't even try or don't even know that they are supposed to in the first place and don't realize ammo is surplused for a reason, not just because it is extra somehow.

Surplus ammo does NOT meet somebody's standard in some way or it wouldn't be surplus in the first place. I'll help folks who come looking for help and want to learn. But that is not what this thread is talking about. This thread is about people who come on forums knowing everything they think they will ever need to know about reloading and all the need is the right powder charge for match ammo or the most powerful ammo and do not understand their weapon or ammo to begin with. Usually to penetrate paper at 50 yards or plink tin cans. And never seem to have a specific use requiring the caliber they are loading for, for bullet selection or the power or accuracy the claim they want, or why one of the listed powders might be better than another, or that reloading manuals often don't separate out bolt actions from semi autos or that magazines have something to do with OAL.

And OAL is a critical dimension affecting pressure and if it won't fit in the magazine you don't just 'make it fit'. Nothing can be a bigger give away that somebody trying to make the most accurate loads possible with the cheapest possible components they can find.

Accuracy requires components held to tolerances that make accuracy possible. Plinking only needs cheap components. There are other 'give aways'. I'm not going to list them all. But you should get the idea. Experienced reloaders can pretty much tell a lot by the question itself. And by what the concerns of the person asking are.

And if they are going to listen when you try to give a good answer and guidance on how to achieve what they say they want to achieve, on the rare occasion they actually have a specific purpose for the ammo. It's a forum. Nobody can be forced to answer, and nobody can be forced to listen or take good advice, or follow best procedures, or have the maturity and good sense to wait until they can get the proper components to load ammo for their stated purpose.

If you don't want to answer don't. If you want to try and educate a newbie, go for it. You can't give help to people who won't take it. If you think any real help can be given in a forum post to somebody who does not have a good solid understanding of reloading to start with. Then you might consider what that tells some folks about you and what you think help is.

If you think anybody is obligated to abandon their good sense and give advice to somebody who is bleeding ignorance all over the board you might want to rethink that. If you think anybody is here for anything other their own purposes and agenda and that the experienced people are here for anything other than to try and save fools from themselves, you need to consider what that tells people about you as well. Last edited by AmmoSgt; at 03:06 PM. If you think any real help can be given in a forum post to somebody who does not have a good solid understanding of reloading to start with. Then you might consider what that tells some folks about you and what you think help is. If you think anybody is obligated to abandon their good sense and give advice to somebody who is bleeding ignorance all over the board you might want to rethink that.

If you think anybody is here for anything other their own purposes and agenda and that the experienced people are here for anything other than to try and save fools from themselves, you need to consider what that tells people about you as well. No i didn't mean to inply that at all.lol i think everyone should follow safe practices in reloading.when i bought the powder i got last time, i asked the owner of store and i also called company to verify.just because owner of store said it used same data as the one i used does not make him right.yes the powder i got can be safety used in my rifles but just takes more to achieve same results.

I am sorry that you and others think that.like i said when i started reloading i read all i could,got a manual. Used the data,starting at lowest listing,and i still start low on new powders. Do i know everything? Heck no,but neither do you my friend. So what exactly is a person supposed to do when there is no data available? So lets just say a bunch of you come across some really nice 1887 swedish nagant revolvers. Something that I have been working with for over a year now.

You're just going to run to that nice new crisp hornady reloading book? Cause, ya know, it's got a whole chapter on the 7,5mm nagant? No, you would ask here. Then someone like myself will chime in and share information on this gun, the measurments that I have taken, original bullet design and weight, a special mold that I had cut, ect. A smarter person would take a look at the cartridge, and if data isn't available, take a look at what is given out and compare it to a similiar cartridge within the same era. If what I posted was double that of the 32 S&W long, you should be concerned, shouldn't you?

My point is, there is nothing wrong with discussing load data, people just need to learn how to verify things, even when it's hard to come. Dan if you have to work up loads from no data you get the training and the Gear to do it right. There are courses on Internal Ballistics in most physics departments or engineering and there are instruments I'm not saying you got to get a degree. Or even take a class for a grade you can audit.

Or hey you can buy a professor a dinner and quiz the guy. Just to make yourself comfortable that you are addressing all the issues on load development.

You sound like you have a good start. You probably have a crony. The pressure trace II in the link above will give you info that can keep the loads safe and professional. Not saying folks can't go advanced. That is what an investment in education and test gear is for.

Nothing wrong with breaking new ground. That is what science and engineering is. But there is a method and standards to do that too. If you did your own development the right way you would be standing on the shoulders of giants instead of possibly ducking fragments.

Just saying Check out edx.org or if you need to brush up has highschool & AP courses broken down in small self paced bites. Good chemistry program and I am brushing up on Calculus real slow pace still trying to work it into my schedual. All the stuff is free, totally free. First two are real serious college courses. Not saying you need any. Just answering the question about what to do if you don't have load info in a general way. Any real college courses on the semester basis online, real schools weekly work, tests, the whole bit.

Just missed a cool course out of U of Cal Irvine myself because of real life. But I am making an effort to make room in my schedule for more of this in my life. Folks can do the advanced stuff, and do it safely, if they go about it professionally and that means educate yourself and get professional gear. I am all for that. But then I feel the same way about reloading. But then ammo has been my career, turned hobby in my dotage.

You think reloading with no data is fun. I started out burning suspect Zuni motors to see what cracks in the solid rocket fuel would do, for Norco Labs and ended up at Sandia. For crying out loud! New reloaders should buy several manuals and read them cover to cover several times before their 1st reload. There is a world of difference between someone wanting info on a common cartridge and some 'weird' cartridge, don't confuse the 2.

By chance one is so lazy and cyber smart not to buy a bound reloading manual or download one, then, have at it. Suggest you read Elmer Keith on reloading('Hell I was There' and 'Sixguns') and his contempt for those that would not use a manual. I fully expect many don't know who Elmer was.good luck, I hope you are not injured and can buy a new pistol or revolver after you blow one or more up. In 1969 I ran out of ammo for my Dad's model 92 Wionchester.25-20. Ammo was considered obsolete even back then, and I was lucky to be able to buy all the boxes my LGS had on the shelf collecting dust. They jacked me for $3.97 a box, but, having no other recourse, I bitched about and brought it all home. I still have 2 boxes of the stuff, and sold one at the last gunshow for $50.

Meanwhile, the advice back 4 years ago was to consider reloading. I looked around and came home with one of the little Lee Loaders, the one where each operation was done with a plastic mallet. Lee load data was pretty wide ranging, and the ammo I loaded seemed OK enough that it brought home its' share of woodchuck hides. Fast forward to last month: Dad packed up and moved to Florida and gave me the Winchester, and some partial boxes of ammo that I reloaded long ago, plus several bags of new brass that I never got around to loading. The plastic hammer has gone on to other uses, and I got a deal on a set of.25-20 dies, and wanted to update my load data.

First place I look anymore to verify a lot of my old accumulated load data is the Hodgdon website. It gives a good variety of loads ranges, but, the $32 a pound cost for powder today isn't conducive to setting up a matrix of loads to test to find the optimum, as it had been in the past when powder was only $10/lb. I asked around on a couple of websites known to have a few.25-20 shooters, and discovered a wealth of information that iust aint' in any of my books: The 60 grain jacketed Flat point bullet I'd been loading back then had never had much success for accuracy. The 85 gr cast flat point is preferred by about all of them shooting the old lever action. With a few questions, I was able to find some very usable loads in short order, that were a great improvement over some of the old stuff I had originally loaded.

The loads were at the high end of the powder weight range according to the Hodgdon data for one powder, and at the low end for another powder. One of the powders I asked about wasn't regarded as really suitable for cast bullets, while another 2 were gre3at favorites.

It was also the consensus that small pistol primers work better than small rifle primers for this low-pressure, low powder volume round. None of that info is in the books, and is likely to die with some of the guys who were willing to share it. I have a lot of favorite loads for.38spl,.357 mag,.45 ACP, 9mm and others that all rely on published data, and I'll occasionally share it for those who are looking to verify that the load they're using is on the right track. All are target loads, and if you want to know about my favorite hi-pressure rifle loads, you're gonna be on your own.

There's nothing wrong with asking about a particular load, as long as you're an informed reloader and 'Trust, But Verify' by checking with the advice given on-line against published reloading data, preferably by the powder manufacturer. I've been shooting a lot of black powder lately, and looking for optimum loads. Powder Manufacturers, Arms Manufacturers, importers, and about everyone at the range all have their recommended powder weights, and all vary by a significant amount. I've loaded up a 450 gr.54 cal Hollow-Base Minie ahead of an 80 Gr. 2F black powder load. It was a lot stouter than what I use for accuracy shooting, but published data says I can go to 110 gr. Powder as a max.

While it may actually work, that 80 grains was pretty hot in my estimate, and I routinely shoot a lot of 8mm surplus to compare it with. So published data, or not, I'd never consider trying that 110 gr. I don't feel it would be safe - and that's another tool in your reloading bag: common sense, or a basis of comparison. If it doesn't sound right, don't do it. Even published data can be in error. Last edited by AZshooter; at 10:03 PM.

In 1969 I ran out of ammo for my Dad's model 92 Wionchester.25-20. Ammo was considered obsolete even back then, and I was lucky to be able to buy all the boxes my LGS had on the shelf collecting dust. They jacked me for $3.97 a box, but, having no other recourse, I bitched about and brought it all home.

I still have 2 boxes of the stuff, and sold one at the last gunshow for $50. Meanwhile, the advice back 4 years ago was to consider reloading. I looked around and came home with one of the little Lee Loaders, the one where each operation was done with a plastic mallet. Lee load data was pretty wide ranging, and the ammo I loaded seemed OK enough that it brought home its' share of woodchuck hides.

Fast forward to last month: Dad packed up and moved to Florida and gave me the Winchester, and some partial boxes of ammo that I reloaded long ago, plus several bags of new brass that I never got around to loading. The plastic hammer has gone on to other uses, and I got a deal on a set of.25-20 dies, and wanted to update my load data. First place I look anymore to verify a lot of my old accumulated load data is the Hodgdon website. It gives a good variety of loads ranges, but, the $32 a pound cost for powder today isn't conducive to setting up a matrix of loads to test to find the optimum, as it had been in the past when powder was only $10/lb. I asked around on a couple of websites known to have a few.25-20 shooters, and discovered a wealth of information that iust aint' in any of my books: The 60 grain jacketed Flat point bullet I'd been loading back then had never had much success for accuracy. The 85 gr cast flat point is preferred by about all of them shooting the old lever action.

With a few questions, I was able to find some very usable loads in short order, that were a great improvement over some of the old stuff I had originally loaded. The loads were at the high end of the powder weight range according to the Hodgdon data for one powder, and at the low end for another powder. One of the powders I asked about wasn't regarded as really suitable for cast bullets, while another 2 were gre3at favorites. It was also the consensus that small pistol primers work better than small rifle primers for this low-pressure, low powder volume round.

None of that info is in the books, and is likely to die with some of the guys who were willing to share it. I have a lot of favorite loads for.38spl,.357 mag,.45 ACP, 9mm and others that all rely on published data, and I'll occasionally share it for those who are looking to verify that the load they're using is on the right track. All are target loads, and if you want to know about my favorite hi-pressure rifle loads, you're gonna be on your own.Thanks for the good post. I've had similar learning experiences on various forums, and that's one of the main reasons I browse them. There's always more to learn when handloading. After engaging in this addiction for over 55 years, I was pretty sure I knew it all.

Definitely not so! I'm still picking up good information, explanations, techniques, 'don'ts' and 'do's', etc. I'm guessing that's why a lot of us are here on the Reloading Handloaders Digest forum. I didn't even read this whole thread, got a little irate after reading a few post. But I will say this, and say this being a little pissed off.

If what milprilep posted is true????, why even have this damn forum in the first place????? Yes it's a fact we have new handloaders here that often times ask the same ole damn question every time and over and over again.

But I thought this was a forum that was here to help people that were new to handloading??? And be able to get advice and experience from more experienced handloaders. Am I missing something here???? If you feel you are to far ahead in your knowledge to give advice to a new handloader, and feel you know it all milprilep, why don't you just move along? I am sure you knew everything from the get go. Maybe there was another post that got you this upset (and I missed it), as I have never seen this from you before. In some respects you are right.

It is still unreasonable to deny help on any factor dealing with handloading here. That's what this forum is supposed to be all about. If not, let's end the forum. Need to breath dude. I spend over 4 years as an instructor in munitions and demolition. A lot of what I think is pissing you off is semantics.

'Helping' somebody is not the same as teaching them from scratch or trying to disabuse them of self imposed misunderstandings or misconceptions. Helping involves folks who are not only willing to learn, but actually trying to learn and putting fort some effort to get it right before they apply their often limited and incorrect knowledge. There is a big difference between knowing the steps to reloading and understanding what you are doing when you reload and why it is important that you do certain things in certain ways, and what is a critical operation and why. AZ Shooters post above that seems to please some as an example of how helpful reloading sites can be includes this comment 'First place I look anymore to verify a lot of my old accumulated load data is the Hodgdon website. It gives a good variety of loads ranges, but, the $32 a pound cost for powder today isn't conducive to setting up a matrix of loads to test to find the optimum, as it had been in the past when powder was only $10/lb.' So we skip the basic safety rule of working up loads because safety is just too expensive on a cartridge that even the most basic research will tell you is downloaded now commercially because of the age of the weapons, and the weaker steel used to make them The ammo is still available No shortage of reloading data So no excuse other than too cheap to follow basic safety rules, by his own admission. Is 'helping' giving him the load data he won't bother to look up for himself and aiding and abetting ignoring safety rules to save a few bucks.

Or is it telling the individual that they have a rifle with known weak steel originally designed for 20,000 psi, that modern weapons chambered in 25-20 can and are designed for the modern smokeless loads commercially available and maybe not so much for an old original Winchester. So many of the basic premises put forward in that post, ammo availability, reloading data availability, are not true, the basic facts of the weapon and the applicability of modern load data and the skipping of safety steps like working up loads, and then using modern loads in a weapon that that the commercial ammo makers were smart enough to ease off the load pressures on. I don't know. Just so much so wrong and all because folks want to save a buck and don't know or understand their weapons. How do you teach that? How do you even help that?

They brag about taking short cuts and begging load data from folks who know what they are doing so they don't have to do the work and spend the money and follow the safety rules and understand what they are doing themselves. If you are going to get pissed off. Get pissed off at that. First off a disclaimer I am someone who is looking to START reloading, I have only started the process. One of my beginning steps IS to educate myself, I do this from many sources. Books are great and are plentiful, I buy them and read them.

The internet is just as good but you have to be internet savvy enough to know how to use it. Some day soon if not now there are going to be surgery instructions on the net, I wont be using them but some will. I totally get the frustration about asking for recipes but from a future reloaders perspective I would add this. Some of us are simply trying to take those shortcuts you speak of to make a good starting point, the amount of loads and combinations of loads can be overwhelming at first. Not everyone is looking to shortcut to 'the perfect load' but simply take advantage of many years of experience from someone they (think) they know and respect.

I can not talk to a book or loading manual like you can a person on the net. This should be a discussion between two people just as if they were in the same room. I would certainly not be willing to give a recipe that I felt should not be used, If you have reservations then give it through a PM or email instead of the forum. Only if you can feel that the person who you are giving it to has a good grasp on what they are doing and all disclaimers apply.

When in school my performance engine building teacher told us students we were not worthy of him wasting his time telling his secrets. We were disappointed for sure but he was 100% right.

Again some of us are simply trying to distil information from the internet because, well thats what you do when you want to be safe. I seldom take information from one source internet plus data from manuals, this is the new way to learn. I would love to have someone down the street guide me through all these steps but that's not possible. I do not feel slighted in the least if you do not want to share your knowledge, it is yours maybe hard learned. Carry on it is a good thread. Something new to learn. I doubt that there is anyone that minds sharing what he knows although there are those kinds in every activity I guess.

What is sometimes seen is the newbie that just wants to make ammo without investing anytime or money to learn what he is doing. The worst place to skimp is on learning and knowledge - that is manuals and data. What you learn can help you avoid garbage posted by a guy that has been a reloading expert for at least 2 weeks. I do not feel slighted in the least if you do not want to share your knowledge, it is yours maybe hard learned.

First off a disclaimer I am someone who is looking to START reloading, I have only started the process Books are great and are plentiful, I buy them and read them. If you had a book, the 'starting point' is in the book the lyman 49th edition has starting points for all loads Some of us are simply trying to take those shortcuts you speak of to make a good starting point, the amount of loads and combinations of loads can be overwhelming at first. Not everyone is looking to shortcut to 'the perfect load' but simply take advantage of many years of experience from someone they (think) they know and respect on the net, the person who answers your questions, you do not know. There are no short cuts in reloading read your book, ALL the answers are right there.THEN ask questions Again some of us are simply trying to distil information from the internet because, well thats what you do when you want to be safe. No, no, no.my friend.the net is NOT the place to get answers.I can tell you anything. Just cuse i am on the net.

Dont mean squat.the net lies. Never, ever trust it.read, trust your brain Carry on it is a good thread. Something new to learn. Then you get the people who come up with a hair-brained (maybe borderline hair-RAISING) idea, whip it out on the internet to get public approval of the idea, do not find said approval, and spend days or longer arguing why the experienced folks are wrong. The first instance that hits the mind is right here, a couple years back.

Guy whose 'friend' was ostensively going to disassemble some milsurp -54R, transfer powder and bullets, as loaded in the -54R, into some.308 brass, and head off to the range. No consideration to the oversized steel-core bullets, no thought as to whether or not the powder charges would be appropriate, and when experienced folks began to raise these 'issues' and did not just hop on the old band-wagon and say 'shucks, yea, it'll be fine, go have fun now son'.

He then had all manner of argumentativity to claim it wasn't an 'iffy' (at best), or dangerous (at worst) idea at all. Fine, do what you want, just as long as I can stay a couple states out of the shrapnel zone. I have questioned milsurp powder to be used in one caliber that is was not actually designed for. Never actually tried it.

And explored sources from here any other sites. Sent a PM to one of the members here that I have a lot of respect for. He explained it to me in a very calm fashion why he did not think it would work. After understanding his explanation, I have not, and never will use it for what I intended it for. I will use it for what it was designed for.

But it took research, and sensible questions, with sensible answers, for me to decide this. And that's what these forums are for. I don't know everything about the sport of handloading. And I will always research and question. Hoping to get a sensible answer. Let me see if I get this right. You are saying that just because you have a history here on this forum of being reasonable, asking for advice and actually listening to it, sharing what you know, sharing results of tests you have run, don't brag about finding rationalization to ignore safety rules and have more than two post, and ask intelligent obviously informed questions, and have posted long detailed posts about working up loads and shown the targets and knew the weather and distance mattered, are a credit to the hobby, and work to advance the cause.

That the 'experienced stuck up elitist classist opinionated and selfish' folks on here should treat your questions different than some one off troll that starts by bragging about not wanting to work up a load or follow safety rules and demand we tell them what they want to know? Where do you get off with that kind of attitude? The nerve of some people. Think you're special huh? Let me see if I get this right. You are saying that just because you have a history here on this forum of being reasonable, asking for advice and actually listening to it, sharing what you know, sharing results of tests you have run, don't brag about finding rationalization to ignore safety rules and have more than two post, and ask intelligent obviously informed questions, and have posted long detailed posts about working up loads and shown the targets and knew the weather and distance mattered, are a credit to the hobby, and work to advance the cause. That the 'experienced stuck up elitist classist opinionated and selfish' folks on here should treat your questions different than some one off troll that starts by bragging about not wanting to work up a load or follow safety rules and demand we tell them what they want to know?

Where do you get off with that kind of attitude? The nerve of some people. Think you're special huh?Well I only have one response to that.

Here is what is included in the files.